Ask a Website Design Company ^BETA

5 June 2009
Hi Chris,

While there are, and I am sure you will receive, many different opinions regarding CMS applications, please accept my explanation as my view and one, I'm sure not, shared by everyone.

I make a point of developing custom CMS applications for all my client websites. The CMS is tightly integrated into the design of the site, so that when my clients are working within their CMS, they have the same look and feel as their website. Why is this important? Many website owners are very visually bound to ideas of what content should be on their website. Commercial CMS applications developed with a "Contol Panel" look and feel can be very confusing.

That being said, I would highly recommend some sort of CMS, whether you use Joomla or have a developer create something unique for you, it is much nicer to have control over your website content.

A static .HTML website is harder to maintain and ultimately is more prone to mistakes or accidental omission of links that are used on multiple pages.

Regardless of the CMS you decide to use, please ensure that you can easily contact and speak to support personnel and that you will not be left with either a free or paid product you can not use because support or instruction is lacking.

Very best regards,
Mark Cloyd
Mark Cloyd Designs
http://www.markcloyd.com

5 June 2009
Hi Chris,

I agree with Mark, we also develop our CMS driven websites around the design, we don't design around a free, off the shelf CMS.
The downside to you the client is cost, the upside is you get a unique site with a CMS written to your specific business needs without compromise. We tend to only give our clients control of the content in the area they need (for example news, testimonials, case studies etc) thus retaining our design look and feel, what Joomla generally does is give you full control over menus and navigation as well as complete control over the page contents. Almost too much control.

If you are confident you can make the pages look good then it is a cheap way to get started.

In our opinion, with web design you really do get what you pay for. To get that polished professional look with well thought out structure takes time and as we all know, time costs money.

Richard
Yammayap
http://www.yammayap.com

10 June 2009
Hi Chris,

I've used several CMS systems, including Drupal, Wordpress and Joomla. I've also built my own but I seem to always use Joomla for most of my sites because it's an incredibly robust CMS. Not to mention the time frame and budget that I'm usually sat upon or the support and 3rd party functionality behind Joomla. I use it for small portfolio sites but it's usually the number one choice for large eCommerce and business sites. For what it does, I wouldn't want to pay anybody for the cost of building something like Joomla.

The backend of Joomla can be complicated but there are certain user groups with less functionality rights that I usually give my clients that just want to update content.

It all comes down to what you need the site to do. If it's a serious site then go Joomla. If it's just a simple brochure website then I'd hand code it and use Adobe's InContext Editing features. It's free and it might be all you need.

Good Luck.

Denis Leblanc
Studio Snapsize
www.snapsize.com

10 June 2009
Hi Chris,
It really does depend upon your requirements and your budget. If you need to update your website frequently (you should!) and you have no html skills, then a CMS is required.

Should you use a bespoke or open source CMS? If you have unique requirements, then you may need a bespoke solution. If not, then use something like Joomla. Think about the business risks of a bespoke CMS - what happens if the company who developed it go bust or are bought by a competitor? Will you still be able to use/develop your website?

Enterprise level CMS - what is it that you need to achieve that you think can't be realised by Joomla or other open source CMS like Drupal? Enterprise CMS are expensive and are also open to the same risks as a bespoke solution. Can you afford the licence and any additional development and design costs?

So, think carefully about what your requirements are - use a requirements matrix to determine if Joomla or other CMS can meet them. You'll probably find that Joomla or Drupal will meet most if not all of them.

Cheers,
Eddie

10 June 2009
Hi Chris,
Depends on what you need the website for and how often you want to update it.

You could get a cheap HTML website developed without a CMS if you are not going ot update it too often.

AS for Joomla - stay clear. We use either Modx or Expression Engine or custom build the CMS.

10 June 2009
Hi Chris,

We also use our own proprietary software for CMS driven websites. I would strongly recommend against a Joomla driven system unless you or your staff are highly technical in nature.

We speak with clients on a weekly basis who are tearing their hair out because they can't figure out how to modify their sites content with Joomla.

It's not that it's a bad system, but the administration is not very user friendly.

10 June 2009
As a lot of people have already said, it depends on your specific requirements. Personally I use Drupal mostly as I find it far easier for non-technical end users than joomla. I do however have a framework that I have built over the last couple of years which I sometimes build custom CMS's upon however clients usually shy away from this when they hear the difference in price between the options.

Drupal (and Joomla) both have a huge user community to offer support as well as a wealth of free plugins most of which are developed to very high standards. To give you an idea I've installed up to ten plugins within drupal which including setup and learning time took about half a day. To develop the equivalent to the same standard myself would probably have taken about a week.

In summary, whilst the custom route does give the best felxibility in terms of your requirements, unless you require something really unique it can often be done cheaper by using open source.

James
http://first4quality.co.uk

15 June 2009
I have personally tried both Drupal and Joomla for my websites, while these open source systems have powerful features but are dull and confusing.

I agree with Mark Cloyd's comments. However if you require a simple website then going for a customised CMS may not be good idea in terms of costs. You may find some good "off the shelf" CMS with less features but is simple and budget friendly.

15 June 2009
Hi Chris,

This is a great question and asked during a remarkable time in web design, development and deployment!

I have to start by admitting that I am quite partial... for I have utilized six different CMS's in my time... three custom built cms's by web design companies (these were before I started in this industry and part of the reason why I did start my own web company). I have to admit, these three custom cms's (for 3 different companies where I had access to update their sites) were extremely dull and quite limited in their capabilities to incorporate incredible web 2.0 presentations and/or other useful add-ons to the end-users (plus usually over-priced ie: a newsletter subscription add-on on your site could cost you from $99 to several hundred dollars). The add-on market for custom cms' is a brilliant masked up-selling technique (and unfortunately this technique is utilized by web companies that utilize open source cms' as well).

Of the other three open source cms's that I have utilized are Drupal, Wordpress and Joomla... all three of these are quite standard provisions with almost any webhosting package you purchase today, and for good reason - they are excellent products with unbelievable support (although the best support should be directly from your selected web developer). The potential for cost-effective enhancements and content editing by yourself on your own website is amazing! And of these three tested, my personal favourite as both a web designer/developer and as an end-user is Joomla! The reasons for this from my perspective are manifold:

- highly intuitive - very simple to write and publish your content, and custom place your content on your webpage (once logged in - it's this simple (add or edit content [2 clicks] then add menu item to make content accessible [4 clicks] 6-8 total clicks and your page is accessible to the world - if content is prewritten in notepad - less than 45 seconds to publish a new webpage!)
- robust security - because Joomla has been downloaded over 10 million times and utilized by millions of website all over the world - security is a top priority and they have an excellent team of professionals who monitor and address core security issues. (note - keep up with the updates)
- world-wide community - there are literally thousands of Joomla developers who are creating components and modules to enhance joomla presentations - [check out www.bestofjoomla.com as just one example]
- cost-effective - as a cms that can meet the needs of any size website, Joomla is your most cost-effective option.
- DIY - Do It Yourself - this is the power of Joomla - if you have the unction, and a little bit of reading time - you can do everything yourself, no need for nickle and diming by a web design company to make tiny edits to your website or incorporate enhanced features... usually quite simple to do everything yourself... and if you mess up a bit, usually quite simple to fix too.

I have experienced dull and limited, and I have experienced mediocre, and I have experienced excellence,... of them all, my best experience has been with Joomla! - accessible, intuitive, robust, flexible, simple, effective! www.joomla.org

But this is my experience and yours may be a bit different... if I could recommend anything... it would be to ask for a demo of the cms - there is a free demo of joomla available and sometimes with custom cms there is a demo available as well - ask for a walkthrough by a knowledgeable person to experience it yourself!

Maybe that will help!

22 June 2009
Hi Chris

This is a question where you will always get both sides of the coin. Personally I feel that opensource solutions can be excellent for keeping costs down and support high.

Some opensource projects are built by extremely capable teams and have many many sites built with their system, ensuring they are as robust as possible.

However, in my opinion Joomla is not the best opensource solution out there. As pointed out in previous answers, the administration area can be confusing and from my own client feedback there are far too many over complicated processes.

We currently use two excellent opensource systems and we have produced our own bespoke CMS system.

I believe that it is our responsiblity as the web developers to ensure that we choose the right solutions for you. This may be opensource based on budget and features or could be something unique to yourselves.

The best method is to find a web developer you trust, and have a good initial consultation/discussion to choose the correct solution.

24 June 2009
Hi Chris,

So far you have had 10 responses to your question......not bad!!

Would i use Joomla .......not in a pink fit......let me explain why.

A CMS by its very definition is a tool to allow you to manage the content of your site.
To have an effective website you will need to keep it fresh with up to date information every now and then... maybe even a picture or three is a good idea on a fairly regular basis.....

You will need to choose a CMS that allows you to easilly make some changes yourself.....be they small changes or big.

Joomla certainly does not fit that bill.......

Hope that helps

Kind Regards

Richard Norris
CEO
SiteZero Internet

2 July 2009
Hi

I've used Joomla for a lot of my recent projects for a number of reasons:

It's easy to design a custom interface.
It takes about 25% of the time to develop a site.
(thus delivering the project quicker and also saving money)
The client can then manage the content and I focus on technical stuff.

My only reservation would be that occassionally it's not at all suitable, for example MX5, one of our clients, needed hand coding for the entire site but another client with a similarly functional site did not need this at all and was extremely pleased with the result and the cost.

I hope that's of some use to you...

3 July 2009
Hi Chris,
What a shame that some of these answers seem to imply the client user is incapable of basic editing!

Joomla's backend system does take some getting used to, but most of my clients simply want to edit the content to say, change prices or upload photos, all of which can be done from the front end in joomla - simply log in on the front-end, click the edit button on the article you want to change, a word processor pops up, make your changes, and click save - done!

New pages and menus can be added with ease in the back end (write a new article, attach the article to a menu - done), although more complex positioning of modules etc can require more expert help.

All in all, most basic CMS tasks are achievable in Joomla, and as for the 'design the cms around the design, not the design around the cms' this risks two things. First, it allows the designer to restrict future growth of the website and it's options to be under their control only - i.e. to change the way the cms allows you to do things you have to return to that designer, and secondly it is a myth that your design will be limited by the CMS - there are many people making free and commercial 3rd party templates out there, and a good web designer will be able to customise these to fit your needs and give you an entirely unique look.

So....IMHO (and I may make myself unpopular with other designers by saying this) most people don't need the luxury of a custom-built CMS, and it could even risk restricting the future growth of your site by being under the paid-for control of the designer. Open source is free, expandable, customisable, extensible and Joomla in most cases will get the job done and provide a comprehensive response to a client's website needs.

Hope that helps!
Chris Stapleton
p.s. this discussion will run and run - there will always be arguments for both sides - the main thing is that the designer you choose has your best interests at heart and provides you with a cost-effective and fitting solution.

9 July 2009
Hi Chris

Have read all the answers to your question. First of all I am a designer not a coder. Joomla is an excellent solution if you want to keep costs down. I have developed a number of sites using joomla, a clients was quote up to £15,000 for a bespoke system. I did it for less £2000 using joomla.

Joomla gives me the freedom to offer my clients the choice of managing their sites themselves or offer low cost updates for them. I joomla is easy to use once you know how, I always offer CMS training with my sites.

Regards Terry